Really interesting! I think it gets even more complicated when we throw literal thinking in the mix - having creators state these common (but not universal) experiences as fact can sometimes be really confusing and discouraging for people who are just exploring this space. For a long time (and I’m still struggling to reframe this) I thought a “strong sense of justice” meant, well, feeling strongly about justice issues. I’m starting to think that it’s got a lot more to do with rigidity, and that can have different focuses for different people! I’m very happy that someone is talking about this paradox in a respectful and balanced way, validating autistic people, compared to a lot of voices out there that take the DSM at the be-all-end-all (the single truth, at the cost of ignoring lived experience) :)
I wanted to reply to say if you’re interested, Kaelynn Partlow has a great youtube short about it! A “strong sense of justice” more as moral rigidity extending beyond politics or social issues though it can apply to that as well.
Thanks for this. It's so rare in Autism World for any of its inhabitants to express nuanced criticism of the conventional wisdom that is assumed to be universally agreed upon. As a white Autistic, I greatly appreciate when BIPOC/BAME Autistics share from their experience, and I wish more white Autistics were open and encouraging about this. One of the things I often tell allistic people who use a person's autism as an example of what awful people we are (eg Elon Musk), is that one thing all neurodivergents (including Autistics) have in common with neurotypicals is that most of us are assholes sometimes and some of us are assholes all the time. I've been a social justice activist most of my life, and one of the things that frustrates me to no end is how much those of us who are marginalized in some significant way use that as a justification for bypassing our ethical responsibility to examine how we are privileged in other ways. What you describe here - that tendency for white Autistics to proclaim they can't be racist - is such a good example of that. I don't know what the ultimate solution to this is, but I know it starts with all of us white Autistics to engage in rigorous self-inquiry about how we have been socialized in this white supremacist culture. I can hear the rebuttals to this already: "but we're not as vulnerable to socialization as allistics!" That is true, to some degree, and yet it is only true to some degree. We certainly are not immune. I think that old overused "Do unto others..." applies here: we need to self-examine in the same way we want allistics to self-examine regarding their anti-divergence biases.
Theres 100% a case of intersectionality vs interesting identities at play within the autistic community, like autism in part of "all things being equal" so then when we discuss things as a community things like race and gender expression come into play
And I think its nice, because when were communicating outside of the community we have to flatten our experiences in order to get a point across but theres so much diversity and fluidity within the community
I struggle subscribing to the idea that autistic individuals have a strong sense of justice.
For myself, I have a hard time seeing someone treated wrongly. I have a strong desire to support people who are mistreated- it makes it hard to not get in trouble with people like teachers and bosses and doctors.
But I don’t like saying I have a strong sense of justice due to what is just being so malleable.
Navigating spaces of autistic individuals it’s hard to not see how the idea of justice can be taken in ways that end up coming off insensitive to people who are autistic themselves.
What’s just for someone is something that is based on their individual beliefs and life experiences.
That combined with the fact that empathy IS something that is unfortunately hard for some who are autistic, the push for justice can come off as cold and insensitive to those who have different experiences of being autistic.
For me even being hyper empathetic (which I don’t use as a positive thing necessarily- I envy those with the ability to disconnect their emotions due to how draining it is to care too much to broadly all the time) I have blind spots where I realize I struggle with at the same time.
No what I said is - "diagnostic frameworks like the DSM-5" , then continue to use the DSM as an example for simplicity but none of the diagnostic frameworks are reflective of the community created language or the diverse manifestations of autism.
They rely on knowledge and curiosity of unbiased clinicians for accurate diagnosis to those who fall outside of the there domain of cultural competence are overlooked.
What I said is community language that reflects shared experiences should be further researched and findings reflected in the DSM.
Really interesting! I think it gets even more complicated when we throw literal thinking in the mix - having creators state these common (but not universal) experiences as fact can sometimes be really confusing and discouraging for people who are just exploring this space. For a long time (and I’m still struggling to reframe this) I thought a “strong sense of justice” meant, well, feeling strongly about justice issues. I’m starting to think that it’s got a lot more to do with rigidity, and that can have different focuses for different people! I’m very happy that someone is talking about this paradox in a respectful and balanced way, validating autistic people, compared to a lot of voices out there that take the DSM at the be-all-end-all (the single truth, at the cost of ignoring lived experience) :)
I wanted to reply to say if you’re interested, Kaelynn Partlow has a great youtube short about it! A “strong sense of justice” more as moral rigidity extending beyond politics or social issues though it can apply to that as well.
Thanks for this. It's so rare in Autism World for any of its inhabitants to express nuanced criticism of the conventional wisdom that is assumed to be universally agreed upon. As a white Autistic, I greatly appreciate when BIPOC/BAME Autistics share from their experience, and I wish more white Autistics were open and encouraging about this. One of the things I often tell allistic people who use a person's autism as an example of what awful people we are (eg Elon Musk), is that one thing all neurodivergents (including Autistics) have in common with neurotypicals is that most of us are assholes sometimes and some of us are assholes all the time. I've been a social justice activist most of my life, and one of the things that frustrates me to no end is how much those of us who are marginalized in some significant way use that as a justification for bypassing our ethical responsibility to examine how we are privileged in other ways. What you describe here - that tendency for white Autistics to proclaim they can't be racist - is such a good example of that. I don't know what the ultimate solution to this is, but I know it starts with all of us white Autistics to engage in rigorous self-inquiry about how we have been socialized in this white supremacist culture. I can hear the rebuttals to this already: "but we're not as vulnerable to socialization as allistics!" That is true, to some degree, and yet it is only true to some degree. We certainly are not immune. I think that old overused "Do unto others..." applies here: we need to self-examine in the same way we want allistics to self-examine regarding their anti-divergence biases.
Theres 100% a case of intersectionality vs interesting identities at play within the autistic community, like autism in part of "all things being equal" so then when we discuss things as a community things like race and gender expression come into play
And I think its nice, because when were communicating outside of the community we have to flatten our experiences in order to get a point across but theres so much diversity and fluidity within the community
I struggle subscribing to the idea that autistic individuals have a strong sense of justice.
For myself, I have a hard time seeing someone treated wrongly. I have a strong desire to support people who are mistreated- it makes it hard to not get in trouble with people like teachers and bosses and doctors.
But I don’t like saying I have a strong sense of justice due to what is just being so malleable.
Navigating spaces of autistic individuals it’s hard to not see how the idea of justice can be taken in ways that end up coming off insensitive to people who are autistic themselves.
What’s just for someone is something that is based on their individual beliefs and life experiences.
That combined with the fact that empathy IS something that is unfortunately hard for some who are autistic, the push for justice can come off as cold and insensitive to those who have different experiences of being autistic.
For me even being hyper empathetic (which I don’t use as a positive thing necessarily- I envy those with the ability to disconnect their emotions due to how draining it is to care too much to broadly all the time) I have blind spots where I realize I struggle with at the same time.
it would help you, tyla too take part in research ....write a book.. mark
No what I said is - "diagnostic frameworks like the DSM-5" , then continue to use the DSM as an example for simplicity but none of the diagnostic frameworks are reflective of the community created language or the diverse manifestations of autism.
They rely on knowledge and curiosity of unbiased clinicians for accurate diagnosis to those who fall outside of the there domain of cultural competence are overlooked.
What I said is community language that reflects shared experiences should be further researched and findings reflected in the DSM.